I wrote the other day but not this specifically, about bullying, harassment, stalking, and channel owners and mods who become trolls within the twitter, channel chat rooms, and other media platforms (of which I should not say the names of) that have been set up by skilled technicians so that conversations can take place. Blogs, forums and group discussions are also available, aaannd personal pages that supposedly you can say as you deem fit?...still not sure about that. I also mentioned that the trolling behaviors may be a reason for people not coming back, or leaving.
However I pointed to the fact, that those voices that are silenced, quieter, and may need more stillness to be heard, are the ones that should be protected at all cost. For it is often these voices that have been silenced and censored for generations from mainstream media, they also may be those that are the most vulnerable. They also may have information that could be vital to your survival as a species. So if "occupy" does the same, that the government and corporate media does: censorship, discrediting, harassment... how are they any different?
Please follow me here, as the blog that I posted which was hastily taken down, and I was reprimanded for, and was told that I had offended the platform's creators and creatresses, was connected to my personal observation that the ultimate attempt to silence the Divine Feminine is by death, be it via the sacrifice of Lightning Medicine Cloud. Yet even death, would not be able to silence or squelch, her voice, her teachings, her love, because the patriarch is over. With the end of the patriarch, there will be the necessity to hear the messages and instructions by the Elders, about the personal work that will need to be done individually and collectively, should we choose not to re-create from whence we came. I surely would not like to see the murder of tens of thousands of women for practicing their Ways or speaking their truth, again.
When it came to my request to have a dialogue, the individual conveniently went to make some tea, and then moved to another room, and refused to talk to me further. So, if you don't know who the While Buffalo Calf is, then you would not be able to understand the half of what I have said....so, if you put your bullying, harassment, censorship away...I think that the patriarchal "power" that chose to censor me, might re-think their actions, because censoring me won't make her go away....she is everywhere.
Now that the original has been deleted by the "power" that be...I have this to make record before, I may have attempts to be silenced again. However, I will be leaving again those platforms, in fact you can take my page down, what can I do about the deaf, dumb, and blind, that continue to perpetuate and even condone, disrespectful behavior...if you ever want to know something, about what I have spoke here, please by all means ask, respectfully.
This said, the "power" that be, indeed, banned me from their media platform, as I suspected they would...no conversation, dialogue, and this is the "free speech" in the occupy movement.
ReplyDeleteHi BearSense ..
ReplyDeleteThis is V from mumble. Can I ask you why you think you were censored? I want to make it perfectly clear. I have no knowledge of what happened in the days since I spoke to you and I certainly had no contribution in these apparent consequences. In fact I have not spoken in mumble since I spoke to you. I would like to understand why this happened so I can take decisions about my own participation but I need to be clear of the facts from all parties.
As I tried to make it clear the night I came into The Craft Room (after being granted permission to do so) to speak with you. My Occupy perspective is TOTAL inclusivity and NO censorship of any opinions unless it crosses the boundaries of where legal action can be enacted which could potentially impact on the visibility and accessibility of the website (which after all is a platform for all) that would of course include content advocating hate as well.
I hope you will be persuaded that I am sincere in my request and oblige. My passion is for truth, honesty and a world without flags.
Well, V nice to hear from you, since I can't contact anyone, because the "creators" of occupii have banned me, and in fact told me in mumble that I had upset them by my posts then REFUSED to talk about it with me, and even after I said if they wanted a public apology from me, if I could understand why they are upset by my culture, which are my perspectives and worldview...occupii is not an open forum, and is dictated by a few...of which he told me who they were. Therefore exactly what I have, said, recreating a dominant culture, where those that have been marginalized will not be heard. I am not the channel creator of the Craft Room....it was lunadraconis, she set it up for her reasons, the Way she did. You came and talked to me because I was there...if it is your perspective you are being excluded, because you do not want to knock on someones door, greet them, or whatever, then talk to lunadraconis...I certainly understand from a First nations perspective, and told you about it...you know that there are other cultures on this planet. I have been banned by occupii....that is censorship. Put it on your pirate pad, or whatever...and see if you get a real conversation if the ones that have been banned, can not speak for themselves.
DeleteThank you for your response..
DeleteYes my perspective is that if you allow subjective control of ANY space for discourse then that has the potential to build walls and thus division. I have no issue with respect for someone's personal space that is something completely different.
Thank you for this information. I will be communicating with the organisers of the website to understand their reasons for what has happened.
Thank you again for acceding to my request and taking the time to respond.
Thank you V, do as you wish. I do not know if this can be repaired...they seem to think that using the names: channel owners and moderators or channel/mod trolls is a direct attack on them personally
Deletei never named names, not even when I was "confronted" by someone, demanding to know if I was talking about them, and wanting to know who I was referring to... pressure pressure pressure...you all know who these ppl are, well maybe you would not, because you "fit in"...well I am a channel caretaker and moderator...and am currently talking to the world you "created" and thought there was hope to end the war on our women, children, elders and Way of Life. The Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Article 16.1, says: "Indigenous People have the right to establish their own media in their own languages and to have access to all forms of non-indigenous media without discrimination.".... but they will not come, if I can't even get anyone to listen, and I am from both sides of the cattle guard....as Tom G says..."we are very wary, but know we have to work together"....
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ReplyDeleteHi BearSense
ReplyDeleteI spoke yesterday with one of the moderators and intend to speak again to others. The thrust of this conversation revealed, to me anyway, that there is a difficulty in understanding a grievance you bear and of which (as I currently understand it) you expressed in terms of
1. occupylsx stream hijacking visitors to your channel
2. mods (including those with occupii.org) you name acting as trolls and of whom are stalking you
It would appear that exception was taken to something you posted apportioning responsibility to specific individuals in light of these beliefs.
Regardless of the veracity of these claims, I am totally opposed to any individual or group assuming an unchallengeable position of sanctity and banning people, even if they they deliberately fall foul of the principles I hold to and named earlier, I will always prefer some process for resolution. Actions like banning for me is no different as subjective exclusion and ferments the already murky environment of distrust that we live in. There is no added value in adding to the negative and the fallout of which can only damage what ground has been made.
For my part at least, this incident and the manifestation of arbitrary room control within mumble has given me pause for thought as I consider my own future participation with occupii.org and to a lesser extent, the mumble platform.
If it is any consolation I can only add at this time that, you are at liberty to login to mumble as you are NOT banned from this platform which is distinct from occupii.org.
If you feel inclined to, I hope you will consider this in the near future. It would be a sorry end for us all if you choose not to. As I am often reminded, some of us are on different stretches of the same path and sometimes without thinking we pander to the lesser angels of our spirit.
Dear V, I hope this post finds you well. Thank you for your time and consideration about these matters.
DeleteIf this is what people believe or have been told, then I see that there is a mis-understanding, since the original post was deleted by the “powers” that be.
1. occupylsx, has never tried to “hijack” viewers from Vision, I NEVER said that about lsx. My experience with a few lsx'er in fact have been very supportive of Vision...as have a few others.
2. There are channel owner/trolls and moderator/trolls, that yes indeed they participate in occupii.org and occupii mumble as well....this said, do I think that they should be excluded, not necessarily, there is a place for the "clowns" (<our word in indian country), but trolls are not operating under the knowledge, and to the responsibility to what that sacred role to a community is as a "clown", they are "trolls" which is different. However I know that language is at the foundation of every culture. If highjacking attempts, bullying, harassment, intimidation, and yes even stalking language is condoned and accepted as “free speech” in a “non-violent” movement called “occupy”, where is any sense of responsibility we have to ourselves and one-another in this “occupy media world”? We all know what verbal violence can incite at worst, and at best it undermines solidarity, trust and working relationships. And where is there any means by which to address these behaviors, with hopefully restorative justice methodologies and responsibility taught? I have tried on numerous occasions to talk to some ppl, and they turn a deaf ear to me, blind eye to see what goes on in their channels or mumble, and plead ignorance....and won't even acknowledge that verifying links, or their content might be a good idea...you see the western culture is coming out of a very violent period in time and space, and the people have had to numb themselves to survive it. The notion that having a "thick skin", is admirable to one, may not be conducive or even how another is made.
3. Are we not responsible to the future generations? ^
4. The individual that was upset with me, and banned me, told me that they were a “troll”, and that a person that I think is nice (and a "creator" of occupii), is not, and is really “mean” (is this meant as a threat?). And that the “creators” of occupii (and named names) were ALL, upset with me (is this a gang?)....sorry, I associated the occupii.org with the “occupii mumble” room, as therefore the “same creators”. I certainly am not going to be banned in one, and then go into the other, and be in a hostile environment at worst or ostracized at best...or was this all “just troll talk”? And this goes without being willing to talk to me, and getting others to refuse to talk with me as well? Think about it, please. You know that saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me."...And you want to have me consider coming back into mumble? You have been the only person to reach out to me from the "occupy media" in this circumstance. I have done my best to bridge the Elders to your world, and "occupy" did not understand. The Elders are asking me to come home now...
Delete5. Is there any responsibility we have to the culture of the “occupy media” et.all – world?”
6. Certainly, I guess if knocking on someone's door, or speaking a greeting, is questionable and deters you from wanting to participate in that room, I think about the times I have thought that I may have made a friend...and then it is smashed, and I am told that “you can not trust anyone in the channel-media, et all world of occupy”. This is not a world that I want to be a part of creating. When ppl you come to know, by whatever their handles are, you would think that there might be exceptions to the knocking? At my home, my relatives, do and don;t knock, depending on the circumstances, and my son has learned not to interrupt a conversation, but rather slips in quietly to get my attention. And what about mod or channel owner trolls who don similar names to ones we know...how undermining is that? <----This is so sad. I just think that it is such a small request to knock or greet someone, because I know people who fast without food or water so that the people may live...my perspective on that one is different V, as it has nothing to do with control, or not being welcome. I know that when I initially was in the channels I noticed that some ppl could post links without asking, they were "trusted" I suppose, I asked to have that requirement lifted, and then chose to go back to asking, and telling about what I wanted to post...I actually like the behavior.
Again thank you for posting me V. I must get back to happier dreams, thoughts and creating beauty and gardens in my world...blue, peach and apricot straw flowers for summer's wall hanging smudge bundles...oh they are such a sight to see and smell!
Hi BearSense
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking the time to respond. It is clear your grievances are deeply felt. And for that we must all be sad.
I read your words conscientiously and it is in this spirit I offer my farewell response. For me it is conundrum to convey love and exclusion within the same domain of thinking as clearly the two cannot co-exist harmoniously which is why I found your language troubling.
On the issue of respect I fear there is confusion. Experience has taught me that the issue of respect is one that has been be manipulated and used to cloathe fear and weakness. Using the term respect to allow one to hold subjective control over a space for discourse is completely different and is potentially insidious in nature as it accommodates an environment for nurturing borders however insignificant they may seem at first. A wall is built with the first brick. I for one am alive to such discrepancies from all sides.
As for when one chooses to isolate oneself, I can only say that something that has been purposefully broken off will always bear scars. You can choose to celebrate the scars as learning or hold them as testament to the self defeating pursuit of self righteousness. Or we can also choose to become like water over stone and follow Nature's lesson. Our Mother Earth teaches this irreproachable truth.
My best wishes in your pursuits.
Well, this is interesting, seems that V, and the internet occupy world, maybe do not have the means by which to address the issues that I brought up. I also find V's view that he thinks I am isolating, in "self righteousness". He evidently does not know me. Yes I will agree that there were many bricks by the "occupy and ii media world" that have been put in place to isolate it'self. I can also see, that the way he was taught about "respects" in entirely different to other cultures. Hu-mans have gotten themselves in a deep crisis for the simple reason they do not respect our Mother Earth. It starts there folks, and permeates throughout the western culture and mind.
ReplyDelete